Az the Husband and I have a penchant for terrible sci-fi movies. We love them. Occasionally, a movie achieves a nadir of badness so perfect that it inspires almost religious fervor in us.
Battlefield Earth was one such movie. We rushed out to see it in the theaters after reading a review that called it “possibly the worst movie of the century.” We were not disappointed.
So you can imagine my delight, dear readers, when I discovered that William Shatner, everyone’s favorite sci-fi overactor, made a movie before he did the original Star Trek series. It is a 1965 horror movie, not sci-fi, but – oh, dear readers, this is almost too delicious – the entire thing was filmed in Esperanto.
Esperanto. That fake, made-up language that was briefly the darling of misguided intellectuals. It was invented to be an international language, one without the political implications of English or French or what-have-you.
“Esperanto is the second worst invention of the twentieth century,” Az the Husband declared in horror, after I explained my movie selection. “Right after Scientology.”
So it seems fitting.
(It turns out Az was wrong. Esperanto is a nineteenth-century invention.)
Oh! My husband and I lurrrrrrv bad sci-fi and horror movies. He makes me watch bad zombie movies all the time. I always protest, but secretly, I love them. Just like “Twilight Zone.”
Esperanto FTW!
Esperanto ? Springboard …to languages !
http://www.springboard2languages.org/natlang.htm
http://www.freeweb.hu/egalite/salto/saltofr.htm
en.lernu.net/
http://www.esperanto.net/ (62 languages)
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/9560/sec_id/9560
Why do you bother having and PUBLISHING opinions about things you don’t know about?
Esperanto has earned me a living for most of the decade since I first learned it and has given me and my daughters fabulous travel experiences which we could never have had otherwise.
Ask more and tell less, you learn more.
“misguided intellectuals”?
Have you browsed the Internet to see who is interested in Esperanto nowadays? There are certainly some intellectuals to be found, but there are Chinese factory workers, who enjoy being able to communicate internationally. In fact there are people from all walks of life who enjoy making friends in Esperanto, singing, etc. Have you watched the Youtube video of a 21 month baby who speaks Esperanto? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ErKbLL5WQ
Speaking Esperanto is so much nicer than having to speak a national language that is not your mother tongue. It feels like a very natural language.
Oh ha ha, I love it! I read the third paragraph out loud to my husband… when he finally stopped laughing he said, “You know how there’s ‘geek chic’ now? Well, Esperanto will never be chic.” Above commenters notwithstanding, of course.
Language?! I thought it was Italian coffee. Which makes me neither a misguided or guided intellectual.
Not really. I never heard that word before today.
Oh my gosh! I’d completely forgotten about that language! “The international language of business”, hee-hee-ho-ho. We took a “language aptitude test” for the military to be considered linguistic material that incorporated esperanto concepts. It made my head hurt.
Esperanto is spoken by more than a handful of folks in more than a handful of countries. Put Esperanto into your Google search engine and see what you get. Look for yourself. By all means, try to find out something about Esperanto, which is a very useful tool.
Hi Veronica, it’s William Shatner’s Birthday on Saturday! We created a group birthday card for him. It would be great if you signed it and posted the link on your site. I’m sure he’d love to hear from all his fans. We will be sending the final card to him on the 22nd.
Click here…
http://squidnote.com/c/dd8H7es_MzD
Thanks,
Ava
Thank-you for introducing Esperanto to your readers.
I’d rather be a ‘misguided intellectual’ than someone who is braindead. Instead of watching bad movies I try and read good books. I can even brag of having translated one into Esperanto. It was “Demian” by Hermann Hesse. Translated from the German would you believe! And it was published in New York by Mondial: http://www.librejo.com
Well, who knew that Esperanto was not, in fact, dead? Perhaps Aramaic and Latin are still spoken somewhere, too. I mean, there were people who could speak Elvish when Lord of the Rings was filmed, so who knows?
My goodness! You probably didn’t expect a post about William Shatner and Esperanto to turn up a small maelstrom of controversy in your comments, huh?
I had no idea that Esperanto was such a sensitive subject. Ouch!
No offense to the above readers, BUT I have never heard of Esperanto until today. My husband has been in international business for a long time. He spends time in Mexico, France, Canada, and Italy for business and no one speaks Esperanto. Plus my husband’s co-heart who grew up in Morocco speaks 7 languages – but alas not Esperanto.
On the subject of bad sci fi- There was a whole show devoted to that venue called Mystery Science 3000. It was the silliest , most outrageous show, and I was a regular viewer. Bad sci fi is one of my favorite indulgences.
So what’s the title of said horrible William Shatner movie? My husband and I love bad sci-fi too!
Jen, the movie is a 1965 horror flick called Incubus.
Wow, who’d have thought that the Esperanto watchdogs would come out in droves over your little post about a bad William Shatner movie. It is interesting to me that they are flinging about uneducated insults about you and your post in the same way that they accuse you of doing about Esperanto. Veronica, brain-dead? Hardly.
I think we’ll have to watch that movie this weekend.
A post both educational and entertaining. And the entertainment factor lingers . . .
Good job!
“Esperanto. That fake, made-up language that was briefly the darling of misguided intellectuals. ”
Do you care to give us some names or did you just made that up as well?
To some commentators:
Who said that French were arrogant people?
Oh my.
And you thought the tooth fairy post would bring entertainment and controversy.
Wow, I never knew a deliberately invented language was so controversial. But, wait, no defenders of Scientology? I figured people would be more adamant about that.
Love your blog!
Holy cow, Veronica. I’m dying over these comments. You have apparently angered the sci-fi gods, and this is your punishment.
“Starship Troopers” is my favorite really bad sci-fi movie. I’ve watched it countless times — whenever it’s on TBS or something like that — only because I’m helpless to look away.
Veronica:
Your profile indicates that you are an ABD (Ph.D.?) – if that is at some reputable institution then you will no doubt have had some experience obtaining a reading knowledge of at least two foreign languages, and might have thus gained some inkling as to the difficulties of ethnic-language studies – and might then be supposed to have some slight sympathy towards the idea of ‘universal bilingualism’ [YOUR language + non-ethnic, non-territorial Esperanto for all]. If it was not such an élite institution, but one where ALL human knowledge is assumed to be available via English, then you are no doubt suffering (unknowlingly) from ‘monolingual myopia’, unfortunately very common among N. American intellectuals. Or is just plain old linguistic imperialism your bag?
Please open your ears and your eyes to the non-English world, and spend 5 minutes thinking about the seven points of the Prague Manifesto and the reasons for Esperanto:
http://lingvo.org/xx/2/3
before uttering such rubbish about Esperanto. A litttle intellectual honesty would not be out of place here. As Ovid once wrote: “Ignoti nulla cupido” – that says it all.
I’d be interested to hear the (well researched?) grounds on which the Husband came to his conclusion about Esperanto too.
I’m a bit startled by all of the Esperantonians coming out of the woodwork. Good golly. Adding “Esperanto” to my list of subjects never to blog about, apparently.
Whoa…I’m with the others up there who knew NOTHING about this language and are amazed that others are so angry about your post. You just never know what your posts are going to generate, do you? Very interesting.
To those expressing surprise and dismay at the number and intensity of reactions from Esperantists on this blog:
Please, please, please cut the Esperantists a bit of slack. There is more to these reactions than sour grapes.
From my experience, most Esperantists – myself included – take the language to heart and identify with it to a certain degree. Negative comments of any kind are bound to elicit reactions. When those comments stem, as they almost always do, from the mindboggling ignorance that abounds regarding Esperanto, you’ve got a recipe for a backlash. In such circumstances, most Esperantists maintain their composure, but some, out of years and years of exasperation, throw up their hands and blurt out out the first retort that comes to mind. I do not in any way approve of any of the demeaning replies. When I see comments like the following, however, I understand and share in the frustration, and find it difficult not to feel insulted in some cases:
• … but – oh, dear readers, this is almost too delicious (the malicious delight at something so absurd is palpable) – the entire thing was filmed in Esperanto
• Esperanto. (pregnant pause, like it is almost too unbelievable to be true) That fake (so Esperantists are charlatans?), made-up (implying how that it is not natural today?) language that was briefly (define “briefly” – Esperanto has been thriving for over 120 years and counting) the darling (codeword for debacle) of misguided (according to whom?) intellectuals (implying exclusion of ordinary, reasonable people).
• “Esperanto is the second worst (by what criteria?) invention of the twentieth century,” Az the Husband declared in horror (based on what experience?)
• Oh ha ha, I love it! (sharing in the ridicule) I read the third paragraph out loud to my husband… when he finally stopped laughing he said, “You know how there’s ‘geek chic’ now? Well, Esperanto will never be chic (based on what historical analysis?).”
• Well, who knew that Esperanto was not, in fact, dead? (the ridicule implied by the following tongue-in-cheek is obvious) Perhaps Aramaic and Latin are still spoken somewhere, too. I mean, there were people who could speak Elvish when Lord of the Rings was filmed, so who knows?
• A post both educational (if you call misconception educational) and entertaining (if you call ungrounded ridicule of an entire group of people entertaining).
• I’m a bit startled by all of the Esperantonians (unconventional usage of English affixes smacks of derogatory) coming out of the woodwork. (so Esperantists are vermin? by what standards?)
The number of people harboring misconceptions about Esperanto and the depth of those misconceptions are truly astounding. Rarely have I seen so many unfounded assumptions and faulty conclusions and so much groundless innuendo and erroneous information pass for fact than I have for Esperanto. I have encountered few topics about which people who know so demonstrably little profess to know so much with such self-proclaimed authority. It is indeed breathtaking, and must almost be experienced to be believed.
The sad thing is that the ignorance is so easily dispelled. A simple Google query on “esperanto” restricted to English-language pages returns over a million hits. The first two pages of hits alone are chock-full of links to information, portals, lessons, and so on. If you cannot muster the energy to do that, try just one of the following URLs: http://www.esperanto.net (information portal) and http://www.lernu.net (self-learning site). Alas, I fear that most of the readers of this blog already “know all they need to know” about Esperanto and will look no further.
Pardon me for another post, but perhaps I should have added that to judge Esperanto from viewing William Shatner’s movie Incubus is hardly fair. His pronunciation is generally appalling, and I’m told that he actually never learned the language, but learned his bits off by heart. If you really want to hear normal Esperanto, try one of the daily Esperanto broadcasts from Radio Polonia:
http://www.polskieradio.pl/eo/
(Radio China International also has daily programs in Esperanto, and Radio Vaticana several times a week – try Google, if interested!)
For those of you who claim never to have heard of Esperanto before, perhaps you might ponder: why? (Are the English-language media doing their job of informing you, or are they keeping things from you? Who might have most to lose if Esperanto were better known?)
And a peek into the history of Esperanto would show what Stalin and Hitler did to Esperanto-speakers. Some people find the idea of a common second language very unsettling! (NB I am NOT talking about ‘one language for the world’ – I find the very idea totally abhorrent – but about a common SECOND language.
Okay, let the Esperanto fanatics take note: this post has me interested in finding out about Esperanto. I like languages. Maybe I will even learn to speak it! Feel better?
Good.
But I don’t want to join your club.
dude. I’m totally putting you in my bloglines after seeing the ruckus you have raised.
whoa! The worst movie ever made that I have seen has GOT to be Boxing Helena.
Wha? I’m totally in the dark, obviously. Hope you don’t start getting hate email in Esperanto, now…
I believe my daughter would refer to some of these commenters as “snootypants”. That’s not Esperanto, it’s toddler English. See, she’s not monolingually myopic… or whatever that guy said that made me laugh out loud.
Oh dear. Yeah – I thought some of my DVT emails were a bit – out there, but – you win.
I think in your next post you should say something really, really bad about people who speak Klingon, see what kind of reaction you get.
I’m sorry but this is hilarious!!! I love it! And I love you, Veronica! hehehe
I was sent over by Beck.
i now have to hide your blog from Dave or his “Mystery Science Theatre”-loving nutjob self will force me to watch that William Shatner movie in Esperanto and i will wish, oh wish indeed, that i were dead.
this post made me love you! get me the name of that shatner movie.
who knew esperanto was, um, so popular among the a certain set. i guess i be pretty dumb just speakin’ english.
Wow. Your post made me chuckle but the comments made me laugh and laugh and laugh. Thanks.
All day I have been wondering how the Esperanto fans found this post in order to leave comments on it. I googled Esperanto to see if Veronica’s blog would pop up in the results. I looked at the first 15 pages of results. No Dredge. Do people troll the internet all day, looking for Esperanto insults to avenge?
My husband has been wandering around the house, singing “Esperanto . . . ” to the tune of “Desperado . . . “
[...] 20, 2008 by Veronica Mitchell When I wrote yesterday’s post, I had a brief qualm before hitting the Publish button. Hmm, I thought. Maybe I shouldn’t say [...]
Julie, if you’d googled Esperanto in the blog category, you would have found my post. But I got almost no hits from search engines. I think someone probably passed around the link while instant-messaging, because my stats tripled, but with no traceable links.
JulieC, you totally made me laugh out loud with the “Desperado” tune. This is CRAZY!!! I was the first comment so I had NO idea of the ruckus. I consider myself fairly intelligent (even if I am from the deep South) and I consider Veronica WAY more intelligent than I am and can’t believe these pro-Esperanto readers have taken such offense and insulted her language knowledge. I’ve never heard of Esperanto. I was just amazed that Shatner made a movie before Star Trek. And I’m all about some Mystery Science Theatre 3000. Veronica, keep on blogging about what you want and I’ll keep reading! Can’t believe the Scientologists didn’t come out to martyr you…
Well, I don’t know what kind of intelletual I am
, but I haven’t heard of Esperanto since the early 90’s! I had no idea people still spoke it.
Now look what you started:)
To Veronica and Julie C:
Here are a few more laughs for you and yours.
Since you were wondering: your url shows up on Google Blog Alerts to anyone who wishes to be alerted to mentions of Esperanto. These are few and far between in the N. American context, since everyone here has been fed the line since birth that “English is the international language” (and so anyone who needs to learn to speak another language is somehow suffering a mental debility!) I think that probably every last goatherd in Bulgaria (no insult intended to Bulgarians or to goats – izvinite, ne govorim dobre bulgarski!) has heard of Esperanto. Why this knowledge has not yet reached e.g. Leann #40 in the deep South I have absolutely no idea – your school system maybe?
At least when one speaks Esperanto with a person of different ethnic language one is demonstrating a willingness to meet the other person halfway – and not seek instant linguistic submission, as most speakers of English do when addressing foreigners (e.g. when US military personnel yell at Iraqis in English, and wonder why their orders are not obeyed). The medium is indeed the message.
comments on this one are a hoot!
thanks for the chuckles all you Esperanto speaking dudes!
~K
LOL! the comments and the post
I wanted to find the epséranto translation for :
“You’ve stepped on some toes” but am out of time this morning”
Maybe the Scientologists are a little slow on the uptake. I hope none of the really, uh, ernest ones also feel strongly about Esperanto…
Mankso, many Americans speak two or three languages. I am sure that a number of us do who read this blog. Most who live outside America chose to learn the language of the people where they now live. Esperanto sounds good for people who travel from country to country, like a good set of transformers, plug adapters and a small iron.
Here from Frog & Toad and so glad I came! I thought you had caused a controversy by mentioning Scientology in a derogatory way. My bad.
I think I may have heard of Esperanto a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago, but have heard nothing since. I never knew it could cause such a kafuffle. Apparently, I must be stoopid.
Wow.
I’m here from Beck, too. I’m tempted to pen a quick post on Esperanto–maybe to jump start my own stats…
Good night nurse… There is poverty all over the world, slaughtering tyranny in the Middle East and Africa and terrorists who can’t see beyond their own desires, and Esperanto causes this kind of lashing? Oh my lands. I need another cup of coffee and a good head-shake before I read anymore.
After the ugliness and insults from most of the Esperanto lovers, I don’t want a thing to do with it. Somehow they’ve just negated all the “meet each other halfway” attitude that the language was supposed to instill in the world. If they’re looking for a way to bring harmony among all the countries, they’re sure going about it in a weird way. I’ve never heard a great debater winning the round while calling their audience:
- ignorant (Why do you bother having and PUBLISHING opinions about things you don’t know about?)
- intellectually challenged (I’d rather be a ‘misguided intellectual’ than someone who is braindead.)
- bad keeper of time (Instead of watching bad movies I try and read good books.)
- lying (Do you care to give us some names or did you just made that up as well?)
- elitist (f it was not such an élite institution, but one where ALL human knowledge is assumed to be available via English, then you are no doubt suffering (unknowlingly) from ‘monolingual myopia’, unfortunately very common among N. American intellectuals. Or is just plain old linguistic imperialism your bag?)
- close-minded (Please open your ears and your eyes to the non-English world, and spend 5 minutes thinking about the seven points of the Prague Manifesto and the reasons for Esperanto: before uttering such rubbish about Esperanto. A litttle intellectual honesty would not be out of place here.)
- openly controversial (When those comments stem, as they almost always do, from the mindboggling ignorance that abounds regarding Esperanto, you’ve got a recipe for a backlash.)
- lazy (If you cannot muster the energy to do that, try just one of the following URLs:)
- ruthless and self-serving [(Are the English-language media doing their job of informing you, or are they keeping things from you? Who might have most to lose if Esperanto were better known?) And a peek into the history of Esperanto would show what Stalin and Hitler did to Esperanto-speakers.]
- a blithe follower who cannot think for herself (At least when one speaks Esperanto with a person of different ethnic language one is demonstrating a willingness to meet the other person halfway – and not seek instant linguistic submission, as most speakers of English do when addressing foreigners)
I’d say that mankso was right about one thing: The medium is indeed the message. Too bad the message being sent from most of the Esperanto supporters is condescending, insulting and close-minded to anyone who does not think like them.
Man, I so wish I were heading to Bulgaria this summer so I could test the veracity of the statement about Bulgarian goat herders and Esperanto. I’ll be in France, though. Would the Parisians be similarly familiar with this language, I wonder?
(here via Beck, via Mad and Bea–it’s complicated, although not as complicated as learning Klingon.)
Another Beck-nut visitor. Where are all of the Scientologists? Are they just proud to be number one?
Holy Mackerel! I read your post yesterday then googled Esperanto and thought: Hmmm, how interesting. But today I came back via Beck, and holy mackerel! As others have said, I would have guessed a Scientology backlash if any.
I love your blog by the way and personally, your comments about Esperanto have prompted in me an interest about something I didn’t know about which is why I googled it. For that I would think the Esperantists would be a smidge grateful.
Hi, also here from Beck!
I would like to take this opportunity to remind people of the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution, allowing EVERYONE free speech, whether it be in English, Esperanto, Spanglish or Pig-Latin….
I am sure that readers from other countries most likely have something similar…
Can’t we all just get along?
Beck lured me over here. I think Esperanto is the new black.
I agree that inappropriate statements were made here by Esperantists. Reading back over what I wrote, I realize that I went overboard, for which I apologize. Esperanto discussion groups advise maintaining a dignified and respectful tone when confronting misconceptions, which advice I’m sorry to say I didn’t heed. The initial blog posting should have been chalked up to lack of knowledge, with cooler heads prevailing thereafter. Please let me say what I should have said originally:
Please try to understand the frustration and exasperation that many Esperantists feel when something they care about is maligned for reasons that are verifiably at odds with reality, an occurrence more frequent than I think people here realize. I use the word “verifiably” with caution, because if you’re not aware of any alternative to commonly accepted “fact”, you’re unlikely to believe you should go looking for it. If I could make a suggestion – a lesson I can take as well – it would be to make sure before issuing an unflattering statement in public involving real people that what you are saying is both true and necessary. Googling the word “esperanto” provides a wealth of information; almost all the links on the first page are good starting points. I especially recommend http://www.esperanto.net (information portal) and http://www.lernu.net (self-learning site).
Sorry, replace the word “maligned” in the posting 54 with “disparaged” (no malicious intent is implied).
this is my favorite post. ever.
ShackelMom, this made me laugh out loud:
“Esperanto sounds good for people who travel from country to country, like a good set of transformers, plug adapters and a small iron.” he he he
Actually, there are yet other circumstances in which Esperanto would be useful. Large sums are spent trying to teach English around the world; there is an obvious desire and need for some common language, local language notwithstanding. Many multinationals and even mononationals in some sectors require a working knowledge of English wherever they are. The European Union, even though committed to the ideal of multilingualism, finds itself leaning slowly towards more English. Esperanto, which can be learned in much less time (<1/5 the time for English), could be taught to *everyone*, including those who already speak English, at a much lower total cost than to teach the remaining non-English speakers English, and in much less time. Being much easier than English, people of all ages, including adults, would have a greater chance of mastering it. Plus, because it would be everyone’s second language, people would be on a more equal footing than between a non-native English speaker and a native, the latter always having the upper hand in negociations, discussions, etc.
Thanks to Beck I will have the tune to ‘Esperanto’ a la desperado in my head all night now.
Who knew people felt so strongly. Wow. Back off nutters.
Lisa b,
Are you referring to Esperantists as “nutters” because of the aggressiveness of some of their comments, or because they defend Esperanto? I find the reactions in this blog quite curious for their extremes – some Esperantists (myself included, at one point) getting way overly up in arms, and some non-Esperantists apparently laughing off any mention of Esperanto as nonsense. Not all have acted this way, but enough that I find it very curious, and I’d really like to understand. I don’t see any reason why this couldn’t be discussed calmly. Perhaps I’ve completely misinterpreted everyone; if so, I’d like to know that, too.
I too am totally flabbergasted by the amount of attention this is drawing from quite unexpected circles. I never expected to end up at a hen-party, but I admit I do like a good debate. I may well be ‘condescending’ (you’re wrong about the ‘insulting and close-minded’ though), but that is besides the point. I thought we were discussing the merits of Esperanto not the personal style of the replies. If you want to discuss this language, might it not be a good idea to advance some ideas, or even facts, pro or contra? Is it considered normal in the US to diss something you know nothing, or very little, about? Google was still in business last time I checked a few minutes ago. Have at it, girls!
And I think the interest has much more to do with a perceived fight, than with interest in Esperanto. I’m really more interested in correct information than in a fight. One Esperanto-site I have access to records 7 visits from this site. Please note, Terri, that we are more than a smidge grateful for these 7 (out of maybe 45+?), even if only two of these spent sufficient time to be recorded, namely one of 27 seconds and the other of 11 seconds. How much info can be gleaned in that short time? Or are you all speed-readers?!
Veronica and/or Az still have not come up with a single justification for their quite bizarre attitude to this language. Would you slam any other language in similar fashion? Many Esperanto-speakers obviously identify strongly with the language. I myself have spoken it for 50+ years, have attended several international congresses where Esperanto is the sole working language between 2,000+ people:
http://www.eventoj.hu/2008.htm
You have to be there to experience it. We have the means to solve world intercommunication problems within a generation, and in a democratic way, fair to all, without discrimination. I have already indicated what sort of people would like to prevent this from happening. Do you honestly feel comfortable about Gordon Brown’s recently renewed bid to boost World English?:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7193681.stm
Isn’t that quite blatant linguistic neo-colonialism? It frankly makes me squirm. No wonder some people dislike English-speakers. Surely CNN reported this?
I thought we had long ago decided that women were equal to men, and blacks to whites. Are English and English-speakers somehow superior to speakers of other ethnic languages then? Shouldn’t these too do their bit of FL-learning towards improving inter-ethnic communication? That’s why we need a politicaly neutral, non-ethnic interlanguage, not an ethnic one (which unfairly privileges its own speakers).
Shalee has kindly (?) spent some time analysing some of the pro-Esperanto comments. I would like to draw her (and your) attention to an article ‘Psychological reactions to Esperanto’:
http://www.esperantic.org/ced/psyres.htm
Perhaps she has a few moments to categorize some of the anti-comments? At least many of these objections have some basis.
And for those interested in home-schooling: if you want your kid to get ahead in languages, then start him/her/it with Esperanto:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaedeutic_value_of_Esperanto
Having quoted Ovid in a previous posting, maybe I can close this one with an apposite quote from the Gospel of Matthew:
“Nolite dare sanctum canibus, neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos, ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis, et conversi dirumpant vos”.
I hope I have been able to throw a bit of light on something obviously previously unknown to many of you. There’s really no need for anyone to get their/her/his knickers in such a twist about all this! I’m just an old fogey, who gets really annoyed at ignorance – if you don’t know about something, then keep quiet, please.
You know, Veronica, it’s been my experience that a gal can bend over backwards trying not to cause offense while blogging and then, blamo!, on a post you think is just a small funny bon-bon, the knives come out. This blogosphere is an odd place indeedy.
Courage.
My husband wants you to know that he is deeply, deeply offended by the levity with which you discussed the acting abilities of William Shatner in this post. (That is to say, when I listed four targets of your venomous satiric pen in this post, asking him to guess which one called forth the flood of angry comments, he said, “Shatner? She made fun of William Shatner?”)
Ah, Mansko, here is where you went wrong, ” I thought we were discussing the merits of Esperanto…” That’s what is so funny! We love Veronica’s writing, her humor and her satire. She wrote about bad sci-fi movies, the worst of which is in Esperanto. Bingo! Our of nowhere, up pops a bunch of humorless blow-hards with an axe to grind. So humorless, in fact as to be really amusing to the regular readers of Veronica’s highly intelligent and articulate writings. I know you guys don’t get it, and feel perplexed at all the laughter you seem to be generating with your ernest appeals for us to take your side on this pressing (from your perspective) issue. Sorry. Better we should laugh and find you amusing than we should get our knickers in a knot about your manners. You seem a bit like boorish party-crashers who would, say, turn a friendly party into an Amway presentation.
No I don’t feel the need to go to another sight to analyze anything else, Mansko. Thanks, but no thanks. There’s a plethora of insight to be gleaned from these comments alone.
Mansko, you stated, “Veronica and/or Az still have not come up with a single justification for their quite bizarre attitude to this language.” Here’s the big point that you seem to have missed: They don’t have to justify anything to you or to us. It’s Veronica’s blog, and she can have her opinions without any regards to anyone else. She made a comment on her OWN site, with no instructions for her readers to direct hate mail or nasty comments to be sent to you or any of the various sites mentioned. Yet here you are trying to hold court in her comments.
I think if you really wish to get your point across to the nations, you should contact the English-language media you mentioned above to request their assistance to get your points across the nation. (But I have to tell you, if you think that they’ll really report it, you’re not familiar with the majority of the English-language media. They don’t report news; they report gloom, despair and the latest fashion on the red carpet. Perhaps if you can word your presentation in such a way that the world will end if everyone doesn’t immediately learn Esperanto while wearing the latest in Spring Fashion, then maybe you’ll have a good shot…)
No where in the blogging world does it say that a writer must hold the opinions of everyone else. Thank goodness! It would be a very boring blogosphere indeed if this were the case.
You entered into this blogging site from a Google Alert (!) without knowledge about the author. Then you and many others made reference to Veronica’s intelligence, outlook and thinking without delving into anything else she has written, other than her provided profile. I think you could use some of your own words as a creed: if you don’t know about something, then keep quiet, please.
If you understand a little Spanish, you can read more about the use of Esperanto in the movies in my article http://www.delbarrio.eu/cine. There you have something about “Incubus”, and even a clip of the very Bill Shatner speaking in Esperanto!
As for the also curious relationship between Esperanto and science-fiction, you can read another article (in fact, a bit outdated chapter of a book on Esperanto) in http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/EBook/app02.html. This time in English.
And, yes, “Incubus” is one of the worst films in history. And their pronuntiation of Esperanto is even worse.
And thank you, I have just discovered I am a misguided intellectual
Whoa! Almost speechless here. Obviously just a misguided imbecile here, but talk about little mountains and molehills.
luv this blog!
Hi Shacklemom,
I like your little girl’s word “snootypants” and I see your point about boring gate-crashers. You guys didn’t really choose this topic, your friend was just being cheeky for effect, to entertain you, but she did choose a public arena to do it in and was overheard.
Lots of people think that demeaning comments about blacks, short people, women or gays are funny and act shocked when those parties don’t see it that way. This is just another case of that.
Moral of the story (the ultimate in boring): If you don’t want to deal with offended people then don’t mock them in public places.
(I bet you taught your little girl that already!)
“Esperanto will win despite the Esperantists” – an old Esperanto saying.
Oh my. I’m joining this a bit late, I’d say, but ShackelMom’s comment (64) sums things up quite nicely. Reading your original post (with a heightened sense of anticipation, thanks to Beck) I felt sure that the Scientology bit would elicit a reaction warranting 69 comments (complete with bullet points! lists of links! scathing attacks upon the Veronica we all know and love!), but I can see now how very wrong I was.
For what it’s worth, my husband is now researching Esperanto on Wikipedia.
Thanks #4 & #68 Penny for that! And good on your husband, #70 Théa!
And now that Esperanto has apparently been proposed as a candidate for the 2008 Nobel peace prize by some Swiss parliamentarians:
http://tinyurl.com/yohh8s
http://tinyurl.com/2377by
is it too much to hope for that perhaps Victoria might finally see fit to either explain, or even apologize for, the the original almost slanderous statements? (Actually, I’d rather settle for the explanation!)
Good heavens.
So…did I miss anything?
What were you expecting, Melanie?
Of course, I hope you didn’t miss the pope’s Easter urbi et orbi greeting in Esperanto, did you? (They’ve been doing it for years!):
http://www.ikue.org/pasko2007/pasko2007_b16esp.mp3
Unfortunately the weather was too bad for decent pics and recording this year, but here are last year’s pics [scroll down the page a bit]:
http://www.ikue.org/pasko2007/pasko2007.htm
(CNN and the BBC usually manage not to show those Esperanto panels in their transmissions).
Who is Victoria?
I’ve tried to post a comment on a couples times on this but have been experiencing computer problems a lot lately and so have been posting and commenting very little. But this is one that I made sure to come back to.
I had NO IDEA esperanto was so beloved. I also expected all of these comments to be from angry scientologists.
There. That’s it.
(I can’t believe I took all this time to keep coming back to post such a lame comment. You’d think I’d have been more creative…)
Has anyone considered the negative part played by teachers of modern languages in the popularisation of Esperanto? In my experience they either know nothing more about it than that it is, as they say (parrot-fashion) “an artificial language with no culture.” They snobbishly decline to take any interest in it, and regard any of their colleagues who do as fools. In Britain their leaders cunningly left Esperanto off the list of languages the Education Minister had asked for, in compiling the National Curriculum in 1990. There was a perfectly respectable national examination in Esperanto to be aimed at up to then.
Consequently, British people are even more ignorant of Esperanto than ever before. The few brave teachers of modern languages who do take an interest learn it very quickly and ingeniously construct websites such as http://www.springboard2languages.org/home.htm
I was having a gloomy day and my friend sent me this delightful debate to cheer me up. If you have posted comments regarding Esperanto that is longer than a short paragraph, contains actual Esperanto phrases, or is an intellectual rebuttal to the comments made in this blog post, then please understand that you are a certifiable geek…and most likely a social retard. This is not due to your interest in a language that most of us are hearing about for the first time or because you are interesting in language studies in general but due to the fact that you take yourself entirely too seriously. If you receive Google alerts when anything Esperanto related is posted on the internet then, for crying out loud, learn to laugh at yourself!
“learn to laugh at yourself!”
You’re late do do that, Silly.
This discussion was closed on on April 5, 2008 at 1:07 pm.
I may revisit it next year. Till then…